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Southlake Carroll and the #1 ranking


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#1081 Super B

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Posted 08 January 2005 - 11:10 AM

You can say that again...

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I can't believe this strand is still open....

covering the same ground....

over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

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that's what I meant by "circles" a couple a post up.

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 12:12 PM

Colerain obviously has some serious athletes. In reality they might have the best team in the nation. I have my doubts because of the style of offense they run. If there was ever a truly one-dimensional offense they are it! Abilene and SLC would put up more yards passing in one game than Colerain did over the entire season. In Texas as of late even the running oriented teams that are in the elite have a respectable passing attack. This was the case with last years Katy team that won the Div. II title over SLC. The best teams in Texas have speed as does Colerain. But it is the defensive gurus who take the speed of those players and put the stops on other teams. Abilene faced two rediculously fast players for Midland Lee and it caught them off guard for two quarters. But Abilene had speed as well and with some half-time adjustments they scored no more. They couldn't pass to save their lives. Lee had put up some gaudy numbers and points on the other teams they had played (50, 60 and even 70 points), but the one-dimensional offense haunted them when they played a team with a fast defense and a guru defensive coordinator. I am not saying Abilene is better than Colerain. I am sticking up for Texas football. The polls are mythical and if there ever were a matchup between Ohio 5A and Texas 5A champions I am saying you better bring a two-dimensional offense. Once again, I figure Colerain has some great athletes and I wish I could see them play SLC or even Abilene. It would be hair raising I am sure.

#1083 Lancer1997

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 12:18 PM

Did you just read this entire thread to catch up????


:shocked:

#1084 concha

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 01:03 PM

Colerain obviously has some serious athletes. In reality they might have the best team in the nation. I have my doubts because of the style of offense they run. If there was ever a truly one-dimensional offense they are it! Abilene and SLC would put up more yards passing in one game than Colerain did over the entire season. In Texas as of late even the running oriented teams that are in the elite have a respectable passing attack. This was the case with last years Katy team that won the Div. II title over SLC. The best teams in Texas have speed as does Colerain. But it is the defensive gurus who take the speed of those players and put the stops on other teams. Abilene faced two rediculously fast players for Midland Lee and it caught them off guard for two quarters. But Abilene had speed as well and with some half-time adjustments they scored no more. They couldn't pass to save their lives. Lee had put up some gaudy numbers and points on the other teams they had played (50, 60 and even 70 points), but the one-dimensional offense haunted them when they played a team with a fast defense and a guru defensive coordinator. I am not saying Abilene is better than Colerain. I am sticking up for Texas football. The polls are mythical and if there ever were a matchup between Ohio 5A and Texas 5A champions I am saying you better bring a two-dimensional offense. Once again, I figure Colerain has some great athletes and I wish I could see them play SLC or even Abilene. It would be hair raising I am sure.

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Teams know going into a Colerain matchup that Colerain will only pass a handful of times in the game. Even so, they can't stop them. Look at Canton McKinley. Colerain played them on McK's home field for the state title. McK was giving up an an average of just 10 ppg. Colerain torched them for 50 even after fumbling 3-4 times in the first quarter.

Even very good defenses like Elder and Moeller were helpless, and they see very good offenses frequently (Calpreps ranks their schedules as two of the three toughest in the country). Colerain put up about 5 TDs on each of them and probably could have put up more but the games were over by the half.

I think perhaps the difference you need to account for is that Colerain's offense isn't a power-running game you might see from a typical Ohio or Texas team. It is a sophisticated option game. The o-line is unusually widely spaced and manned by big, strong and (for their size) mobile kids. Deception is a key element of the game (who has the ball? the QB? the RBs? which way do I go?). The defense is forced to spread their defense somewhat to compensate. And Colerain will throw, albeit only a little. They'll complete 3-4 passes per game (66% completion %) with an average gain of nearly 20 yards to keep you honest. This is disheartening to the defense because when they realize they can't contain the running game, they can't flood the box either or they'll get torched in the air.

And, at the end of the day, trying to stop Colerain's offense is the least of your problems. Scoring is the big obstacle. I think the most points given up by Colerain's 1st string defense this past season was 10. And their average equivalent ppg surrendered was about 2 or 3. Even with their starters on the bench for much of the 2nd half, Colerain's offense averaged 46 ppg. That's a huge gap.

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 01:36 PM

Concha you make good points. Colerain may be unstoppable, but the description you just gave of Colerain made me smile because it is Midland Lee all over again. They line up in a spread and then dare you to stop the run. They had size, speed and some of the best blockers and blocking schemes I have seen. It was quite frustrating. But play by play Abilene analalyzed a way to force them into a box that only a team with Abilene's speed could take advantage of. Now you may be right in that if a team cannot score on Colerain then it might be too late by the time the bleeding is stopped. This is why it would be fun to watch Colerain play SLC or Abilene because they both run and pass equally effectively and might be the kind of teams that could make a game of it with Colerain. The teams that played them were either intimidated going into the game or shell-shocked going out. That is how potent and unstoppable their hit you from all angles offenses were. I can only dream of a game with your Ohio team. Lets just agree that we are advocates of our favorite teams and that you better bring breakfast, lunch and dinner if you want to play them, and get ready for a sad ride home.

#1086 concha

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 01:49 PM

Concha you make good points. Colerain may be unstoppable, but the description you just gave of Colerain made me smile because it is Midland Lee all over again. They line up in a spread and then dare you to stop the run. They had size, speed and some of the best blockers and blocking schemes I have seen. It was quite frustrating. But play by play Abilene analalyzed a way to force them into a box that only a team with Abilene's speed could take advantage of. Now you may be right in that if a team cannot score on Colerain then it might be too late by the time the bleeding is stopped. This is why it would be fun to watch Colerain play SLC or Abilene because they both run and pass equally effectively and might be the kind of teams that could make a game of it with Colerain. The teams that played them were either intimidated going into the game or shell-shocked going out. That is how potent and unstoppable their hit you from all angles offenses were. I can only dream of a game with your Ohio team. Lets just agree that we are advocates of our favorite teams and that you better bring breakfast, lunch and dinner if you want to play them, and get ready for a sad ride home.

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Colerain's defense was unbelievable. Moeller played them in the tournament and completely surrendered their running game - recognizing that Colerain's defensive front is utterly dominant. Moeller had been a very balanced offense all year, but did not even attempt to run on Colerain - not once. Their only runs were QB "scrambles for his life" which netted 0 yards. Colerain actually held teams to negative rushing yardage this past season.

Moeller put up respectable yards on Colerain (nearly 300 - the most they surrendered all year by far), but despite the yards were not as effective as might appear. Their QB was under alot of pressure as shown by the 8 scrambles for 0 yards and 3 or 4 picks. At the end of the day they managed just 6 points after averaging nearly 5 TDs per game for the season.

I honestly believe that the only team that would have beaten Colerain this year is Colerain. They were that good.

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 01:54 PM

Oh, and by the way I thought I would mention a team that would be the standard for a team that thinks they can run on anyone. A little school in Shreveport, LA. has the best run defense I have ever seen in high school. They might as well have been college players. If you can't pass you are in serious trouble. As far as I know the only teams that did anything with them were passing teams. Their offense was pretty good and their pass defense was fair, but I can't express to you how good their run defense was. It was jaw dropping good. If I was a running back I wouldn't want to go near them. Colerain might be their best test.

#1088 Mr. Clean

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 02:03 PM

Oh, and by the way I thought I would mention a team that would be the standard for a team that thinks they can run on anyone. A little school in Shreveport, LA. has the best run defense I have ever seen in high school. They might as well have been college players. If you can't pass you are in serious trouble.

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Hey Dad, I had your son's pic in pursuit of Duron in my signature for awhile....in regard to your post, Evangel's run defense was truly outstanding, but West Monroe had surprising success in the final...maybe it was the turf...don't know, but I was caught off guard when the Rebels gained as much yardage as they did.

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 02:15 PM

Well, my hat is off to West Monroe. You know all this comparison stuff is worth only so much because it is a game of match-ups. Some teams match-up better with some than others and so on. Injuries and being banged up in key positions can play a factor. I think Colerain sounds like the real thing but I am still a little hesitant due to the offensive style. Texas probably gets some bias because football has always been taken so seriously here. A 3A stadium would probably be bigger than most 5A stadiums elsewhere. But teams like Colerain pop up and make you wonder. I still like SLC but I don't want to take anything away from Colerain.

#1090 Mr. Clean

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 02:19 PM

Well, my hat is off to West Monroe.

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I agree, but fortunately, the Eagles' run defense came through in stuffing a two-point conversion attempt during the closing seconds to preserve a one-point victory. :worship1: :worship1: :worship1:

#1091 Lancer1997

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Posted 11 January 2005 - 02:31 PM

Oh, and by the way I thought I would mention a team that would be the standard for a team that thinks they can run on anyone. A little school in Shreveport, LA. has the best run defense I have ever seen in high school. They might as well have been college players. If you can't pass you are in serious trouble. As far as I know the only teams that did anything with them were passing teams. Their offense was pretty good and their pass defense was fair, but I can't express to you how good their run defense was. It was jaw dropping good. If I was a running back I wouldn't want to go near them. Colerain might be their best test.

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I can pretty much garauntee you that De La Salle, had better run defense than anything anyone has seen at the high school level in 1999, or 2003.

The 2003 team in particular may be the greatest high school defense of the last 50 years...

#1092 lamarfan

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Posted 13 January 2005 - 02:25 AM

:worship1:

I can pretty much garauntee you that De La Salle, had better run defense than anything anyone has seen at the high school level in 1999, or 2003.

The 2003 team in particular may be the greatest high school defense of the last 50 years...

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I have to agree with you on that. From what I saw last year on national tv against ECA. They appeared to be definitly the whole package. Ofcourse you never know what the outcome would be if you take a team out of their element. Say Eca had not lost their receiver and quarter back and the game had been played in louisiana. My money would have still been on DLS from what I saw. And I did attend the Abilene/ECA game and I agree with the Abilene dad on ECA's run defense.I believe they held Abilene's Koby lewis to 20yds. I think Abilene had one of the best all out rushing attacks in the country. Along with a great pass,great defense,size,speed, the best team in my oppinion to ever come out of Abilene. Their 2000 squad was good. Abilene did find a way to win that game. Some didnt agree with me but I thought all along Abilene would be carrolls first real threat. And Abilene did not seem to have any competition up untill the ECA game. They were flattening teams.. :worship1:

Edited by lamarfan, 13 January 2005 - 01:11 PM.


#1093 Mr. Clean

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Posted 13 January 2005 - 10:04 AM

:worship1:
Ofcourse you never know what the outcome would be if you take a team out of their element. Say Eca had not lost their receiver and quarter back and the game had been played in louisiana.  My money would have still been on DLS from what I saw.

Some didnt agree with me but I thought all along Abilene would be carrolls first real threat. And Abilene did not seem to have any competition up untill the ECA game. They were flattening teams..  :worship1:

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I agree with you on both points. If Booty would have played, I think the score would have been much closer, but last year's De La Salle team was loaded and would still have taken the win, IMO. Evangel is one of those teams that plays as good on the road as at home.

I knew that Abilene, along with Lufkin, would be two teams that should test Southlake Carroll. In regard to Abilene, the fact that they beat Evangel showed how good they were, because Evangel had a great team this year, although it was kind of an unsung edition, as far as elite college prospects go.

#1094 Lancer1997

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 11:51 AM

I agree with you on both points.  If Booty would have played, I think the score would have been much closer, but last year's De La Salle team was loaded and would still have taken the win, IMO.  Evangel is one of those teams that plays as good on the road as at home.

I knew that Abilene, along with Lufkin, would be two teams that should test Southlake Carroll.  In regard to Abilene, the fact that they beat Evangel showed how good they were, because Evangel had a great team this year, although it was kind of an unsung edition, as far as elite college prospects go.

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At most Booty would have made a 1 TD difference, at least according to the reporters there that day. What could Booty have done against a DB core with 3 sub 4.4 guys? Honestly, not like you can throw deep against that. One was a Parada All America corner, the other an All American Receiver with 2 TD catches in the Army All American Bowl.

So Maybe DLS needs the TD at the end, and so the final score is 34-17 instead of 27-10? Still it was utter domination. Halftime stats were 45 total yards for ECA dn nearly 300 for DLS...Oh yeah and a 19-3 lead.

#1095 Mr. Clean

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:11 PM

At most Booty would have made a 1 TD difference, at least according to the reporters there that day. What could Booty have done against a DB core with 3 sub 4.4 guys?

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No arguments out of me on that point. :peace:

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 03:38 PM

After an endless supply of this topic, may I take this lawfully wedded thread and place it into the world of eternal greatness. May the football Gods have mercy on its soul!

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This topic is now headed into the Hall of Fame! :clap:




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