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#101 Ennis HS 76

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 04:48 AM

Personally, I think you're digging in your scripture too much for the answer.


hahahahaha

I know by a lot of people standards I may be over the top - way over the top. But honestly, with everything that is going on in this world today, the Scripture is the only thing that this 50-year-old child of God can trust for answers. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed reading your post!!!

Anyway, I must try my best to bow out this discussion for awhile - I got to get packed and travel to Minnesota to hang out with some GOPpers as they officially anoint their next keeper of the bones!!! Hopefully, I'll be back in DFW on 9/5 in time enough to see my mighty Ennis Lions put foot into some Lancaster Tiger buttocks!!! Until then, unless the interest of your teams conflict with the interest of my team, I wish your teams the best of success!!!

May God continue to bless and keep each one of you!!!

'76 :D

Edited by Ennis HS 76, 21 August 2008 - 04:59 AM.


#102 WestlakeTech

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:48 AM

Personally, I think you're digging in your scripture too much for the answer. Take a step back outside of the written circle, and be a tangent which doesn't intersect the circle for once.

I think man, not god, has sent the christian religion in the direction it has taken. You ask on what basis did the church evolve from an assembly of believers into an absolute religious authority?

Whew. Look back on history, and even current events. Men have been given absolute forgiveness of their sins for going on crusades? Disneyworld was put on notice by the Baptist church recently? The pope is considered by many Catholics to be the human voice of god? Not many question/ed these religious authoritative decisions made by man? And did god really give them the power to make such decisions? Or did they make these decisions and say god gave them the power to do so? I don't think scripture dictated these acts. Did the ones in power in the church ultimately decide to do such stuff, and say it's the right thing to do based on their interpretation of god's word/message? And did they twist god's message enough to justify such actions?

As for who's sent the religion in the direction it's taken, again, it all comes down to what you believe. Many, if not all, of us Christians believe that God is always in control of everything; yes, even acting often times through men. We have faith that He knows what He's doing and that it's "all for the best."

I won't go into topics involving Catholocism because I'm Protestant and honestly don't know much about the Catholic Church and the difference between it and my own. But still many of the questions you listed above ('cept the Baptist church/Disney World thing, which is news to me) involve that same faith I just mentioned. We have to trust that God is looking out for us and will punish those who try to mislead us.

Also, in regards to your last two questions.... If what they're saying is based on how they interpret it, they won't have to twist the message at all. If it's an interpretation, as far as the Interpreter is concerned, that scripture should speak for itself. People twisting God's message to justify some of their actions? I'm sure it happens. But again, we have to trust that "they will recieve their reward in full."

hahahahaha

I know by a lot of people standards I may be over the top - way over the top. But honestly, with everything that is going on in this world today, the Scripture is the only thing that this 50-year-old child of God can trust for answers. Nevertheless, I really enjoyed reading your post!!!

Anyway, I must try my best to bow out this discussion for awhile - I got to get packed and travel to Minnesota to hang out with some GOPpers as they officially anoint their next keeper of the bones!!! Hopefully, I'll be back in DFW on 9/5 in time enough to see my mighty Ennis Lions put foot into some Lancaster Tiger buttocks!!! Until then, unless the interest of your teams conflict with the interest of my team, I wish your teams the best of success!!!

May God continue to bless and keep each one of you!!!

'76 :D


No way man. You're using what we believe to be the most irrefutable source in the world, defending what you believe in. Nothing over the top about that until you start trying to convert Russ. (lol to all)

#103 Exporter

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 08:28 AM

I read all the posts about the apostles creed....with regards to this creed, is it also founded by apostles?


You asked about the Nicene Creed - what is it I believe.

The Apostle's Creed was about 400 yers old ( writen by the Apostles before the 72 went out to preach the Gospel of Christ) when the Nicene Creed was writen. The Nicene Creed was writen during the Council of Nicea in about 410 AD by the Bishops of the only Christian church of that time. It was writen in Nicea.

The Nicene Creed doesn't contridict the Apostle's Creed. It was writen as a more complete statement of faith. :D

#104 Exporter

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 09:06 AM

Exporter,

In Scripture (NT), including Matthew 16:18-20, the Greek word that "church" is translated from means “congregation,” “people,” “assembly,” or, more specifically, “community of believers,” without reference to a physical building. So I totally agree with you when you say the "the Church is the Body of Christ and Christ is the Head...it consists of all true followers of Christ...all true believers belong to His Church." Moreover, no word or combination of words are employed anywhere in Scripture that would describe the church as anywhere close to being a human religious authority that is not subject to question or examination by it's subjects.
[ You understand completely. Yes you got that right.][

But that appears to be your view of the Church as you said, "if I were to 'interpret' that passage from St. Matthew I would not only be wrong but I would be disobeying Church teaching." So which view is correct? They both can't be. <!--coloro:#0000FF ( stand by what I posted)

color#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF

color#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->

{ I believe you are taking the proverbial Protestan view while relying on just one verse not the entire Bible. I understand you will pick and choose the verses that uphold what your saying while completely ignoring others.
I have three legs on my religious stool. You have one on your stool.
Mine are the 1. Entire Bible with 8 more books than yours.2. The Magisterium - the Bishops of the entire world meeting in one place and the 3. aid of the Holy Spirit. You have only the Bible. I will rely on the Holy Spirit, the Magisterium and the Bible to be more correct than myself
.[/[/color]color]

As for the Bereans, you are free to come up with any little clever term you desire, but the Scripture clearly states that the Bereans "listened to the message with great eagerness, and every day they studied the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was really true (Acts 17:10-11 GNT)" To do so, they had to "interpret" for themselves what the Scripture meant, before they could determined what Paul said was true. Call it what you want - it doesn't change the fact that this was expected of the emerging Church at the time of the Apostles: "But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good...(1 Thessalonians 5:21 NAS)." (( They ignored Tradition which was the teaching of the anoited Apostles.))

Yes, I reached way, way, back into Scripture to show that early believers did not accept teaching, not even from the Apostle Paul, without searching the Scriptures for themselves. Yet you want to point me to some internet site??? Why not show me in God's Word??? Do your church allow you to even read the Word for yourself???
( Comment - Here you go again. Your group always wants to ignore the Early Fathers & the Aposrles writings during the years between 35AD through 120 AD. It has become a game your group plays. You belong to the "Bible Only Group".
Therefore since you are using a different "rule book" than I am..... I will defer.)


You refer to the leader of your church as the "Holy Father," but all throughout Scripture that term is reserved exclusively for God the Father. That doesn't bother you??? The leader of your church is also referred to as the "Vicar of Christ." By definition, vicar means "someone who is authorized to act as a substitute or agent for a superior, serving in the place of someone else; assuming the position, place, or office of another person." Do you not know what Scripture calls the one who takes the place (if he could) of Christ??? That doesn't bother you??? This is better than "all the singing and shallow justification of small-time preachers?" :D

( This is an old standby that Protestans have used since the 1600's. ( Call no man Father! ). There are Heavenly Fathers and Earthly Fathers. You are the physical father of your own child but Holy Fathers are your Spiritual Fathers while on earth.

#105 cougartino

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 11:30 AM

This has been an interesting discussing. I, too, am glad to see people care about issues of faith. I suggest we get on to the benediction look forward to enjoying God's gift of living in a free country and the great gift of Texas high school football.

Amen!

#106 Exporter

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:43 AM

Yes this thread on "Non-Football Talk" was in the right place and attracted lots of attention. Almost 100% of the posts were respectful while allowing several viewpoints to be heard. Maybe this old guy can summerise what he has read here.

1. A news article reported that a Jewish lady, Ms. Lewis, had stopped a local school board from giving and opening prayer. She didn't want a prayer to be said since it was said in a Christian manner.
2. Some posters started to debate whether a prayer should be said in public. Some (2) agreed that prayers should be said in private ( in a closet). Some said prayers are said in public all the time (US Senate).
3. Then one poster took off on "private interpretation of Biblical verses". Another poster said private interpretation is prohibited eclesiastically.
4. One said he wasn't religious but appreciated this discussion. One was rude in saying his defecation was more useful that prayer.
5. All through this thread posters were walking on egg shells in that they were holding back. trying not to offend. Was it useful? Yes.

I will tell you about the time a prayer made me laugh.
Way back in my early days of coaching I was the JV coach. It was common for the team to pick out one player to say the prayer before a game. It was about the 5th game of the year when they picked our biggest player, "Randy". Randy was maybe 6 ft 3" and 230 pounds and red headed. He was a quiet guy too.
Randy said a standard prayer and then he said, " Oh yes Lord, I have one more thing - HELP US TO BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF THEM! I think I was the only one who smiled. You never know what they will say.

#107 WestlakeTech

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 06:56 AM

Yes this thread on "Non-Football Talk" was in the right place and attracted lots of attention. Almost 100% of the posts were respectful while allowing several viewpoints to be heard. Maybe this old guy can summerise what he has read here.

1. A news article reported that a Jewish lady, Ms. Lewis, had stopped a local school board from giving and opening prayer. She didn't want a prayer to be said since it was said in a Christian manner.
2. Some posters started to debate whether a prayer should be said in public. Some (2) agreed that prayers should be said in private ( in a closet). Some said prayers are said in public all the time (US Senate).
3. Then one poster took off on "private interpretation of Biblical verses". Another poster said private interpretation is prohibited eclesiastically.
4. One said he wasn't religious but appreciated this discussion. One was rude in saying his defecation was more useful that prayer.
5. All through this thread posters were walking on egg shells in that they were holding back. trying not to offend. Was it useful? Yes.

I will tell you about the time a prayer made me laugh.
Way back in my early days of coaching I was the JV coach. It was common for the team to pick out one player to say the prayer before a game. It was about the 5th game of the year when they picked our biggest player, "Randy". Randy was maybe 6 ft 3" and 230 pounds and red headed. He was a quiet guy too.
Randy said a standard prayer and then he said, " Oh yes Lord, I have one more thing - HELP US TO BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF THEM! I think I was the only one who smiled. You never know what they will say.


My only response is...

What the heck is a kid that big doing on JV!!?

#108 Russ

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 05:33 PM

I don't recall my post saying defecation was more useful than prayer, although I guess it put off that connatation in way.

Since on the subject, though, if you are ever caught in a pinch with no toilet paper, the thin pages of the bible work well...not much smearing.





Yes this thread on "Non-Football Talk" was in the right place and attracted lots of attention. Almost 100% of the posts were respectful while allowing several viewpoints to be heard. Maybe this old guy can summerise what he has read here.

1. A news article reported that a Jewish lady, Ms. Lewis, had stopped a local school board from giving and opening prayer. She didn't want a prayer to be said since it was said in a Christian manner.
2. Some posters started to debate whether a prayer should be said in public. Some (2) agreed that prayers should be said in private ( in a closet). Some said prayers are said in public all the time (US Senate).
3. Then one poster took off on "private interpretation of Biblical verses". Another poster said private interpretation is prohibited eclesiastically.
4. One said he wasn't religious but appreciated this discussion. One was rude in saying his defecation was more useful that prayer.
5. All through this thread posters were walking on egg shells in that they were holding back. trying not to offend. Was it useful? Yes.

I will tell you about the time a prayer made me laugh.
Way back in my early days of coaching I was the JV coach. It was common for the team to pick out one player to say the prayer before a game. It was about the 5th game of the year when they picked our biggest player, "Randy". Randy was maybe 6 ft 3" and 230 pounds and red headed. He was a quiet guy too.
Randy said a standard prayer and then he said, " Oh yes Lord, I have one more thing - HELP US TO BEAT THE SNOT OUT OF THEM! I think I was the only one who smiled. You never know what they will say.



#109 WestlakeTech

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 07:25 PM

I don't recall my post saying defecation was more useful than prayer, although I guess it put off that connatation in way.

Since on the subject, though, if you are ever caught in a pinch with no toilet paper, the thin pages of the bible work well...not much smearing.

Comments like that are where I draw the line. I am dead serious.

Besides, who keeps a Bible within reach of their toilet?

#110 WataJerk

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Posted 22 August 2008 - 09:09 PM

I do as it is the best spot to read in the whole house. I made a firm commitment three years agao never to read anything while on the throne but the bible and i have now read it twice cover to cover and back to Shadrac Meshac ,and Bendigo right now or what ever the spelling is. I would never be so low as to speak of it or my LORD in any way that is this demeaning. I saw a note/post of RUSS'S on another site about a shooting at a school and SOMEONE said well at least it is the beginning of the school year or some such mess and I answered " WELL WHEN PEOPLE LIKE RUSS TAKE GOD OUT OF THE SCHOOL WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN"

I did not mean to create a war of words over the beliefs of Christians but I am sure glad I can see those that want to be counted " FOR AS MANY AS BELIEVE IN GOD THEY ARE THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF GOD".....

#111 Russ

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:12 AM

Go back to that other thread ya knob...I never said anything about the beginning of the school year. I said that kid could swell on his anger in jail, etc etc. Put your 13th beer down and pay attention.



I do as it is the best spot to read in the whole house. I made a firm commitment three years agao never to read anything while on the throne but the bible and i have now read it twice cover to cover and back to Shadrac Meshac ,and Bendigo right now or what ever the spelling is. I would never be so low as to speak of it or my LORD in any way that is this demeaning. I saw a note/post of RUSS'S on another site about a shooting at a school and SOMEONE said well at least it is the beginning of the school year or some such mess and I answered " WELL WHEN PEOPLE LIKE RUSS TAKE GOD OUT OF THE SCHOOL WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN"

I did not mean to create a war of words over the beliefs of Christians but I am sure glad I can see those that want to be counted " FOR AS MANY AS BELIEVE IN GOD THEY ARE THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF GOD".....



#112 Russ

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 03:13 AM

Lots of people read while on the throne.


Comments like that are where I draw the line. I am dead serious.

Besides, who keeps a Bible within reach of their toilet?



#113 WestlakeTech

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 06:28 PM

Reader's Digest, yeah. I've never seen a Bible anywhere near a toilet.

#114 lorenzo

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 08:15 PM

I was fine with this thread and not offended by anything. One thing I've tried to learn as I've got older is to accept people for who they are. if you don't like them or disagree fine. but we have to accept differences and diversity. I've really learned that since I've been in the service. It's wonderful what can be accomplished when people work together and accept each other for who they are. Imagine how tough it would have been for jesus and his apostles/desciples if they wern't willing to accept each other? In fact this was one of jesus' strongest messages. accept one another. the church then was really upset with jesus for hanging around the people that he did. and one of the things that he showcased was equality. what's on bottom is on top. the murderer/prostitute/tax collector/thief/blind/sick/wounded/rich/poor/jew/gentile are all worthy of acceptance. he made it clear that the father provides the ultimate judgement and we can accept each other if both sides are willing. we know that the father has a will for his people if they are willing to follow. that's why it's important to open your mind to diversity. spread your knowledge with others and learn from each other. don't put up walls that cannot be divided. and ultimately do not bring harm upon one another. One of my favorite rock and roll bands has a song that I like. they say: there's so many different worlds out there.....so many different suns.....and we have just one world.....but we live in different ones.

Obviously religion can get heated when it is debated. but it must be done from time to time. and done peacefully....the way it should be always. not violently. I kind of understand what each of you were saying and believe that all of you had good points and in most cases were ok in your beliefs/intepretations. I think their may have been some mis-understanding and differences that were blown way out of left field. like exporter said....people were careful with their words. and you have to be because one word can be mis-understood. I know a few months ago I made a comment about jesus/peter and wasn't real clear. exporter....you kind of went off on me in correction when in fact I was in the same boat with you. but because i wasn't clear with my comment you mis-understood me. sometimes that's all that happens with these arguements. and often times I say things the wrong way......

Edited by lorenzo, 23 August 2008 - 08:56 PM.


#115 WataJerk

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 08:20 AM

I was fine with this thread and not offended by anything. One thing I've tried to learn as I've got older is to accept people for who they are. if you don't like them or disagree fine. but we have to accept differences and diversity. I've really learned that since I've been in the service. It's wonderful what can be accomplished when people work together and accept each other for who they are. Imagine how tough it would have been for jesus and his apostles/desciples if they wern't willing to accept each other? In fact this was one of jesus' strongest messages. accept one another. the church then was really upset with jesus for hanging around the people that he did. and one of the things that he showcased was equality. what's on bottom is on top. the murderer/prostitute/tax collector/thief/blind/sick/wounded/rich/poor/jew/gentile are all worthy of acceptance. he made it clear that the father provides the ultimate judgement and we can accept each other if both sides are willing. we know that the father has a will for his people if they are willing to follow. that's why it's important to open your mind to diversity. spread your knowledge with others and learn from each other. don't put up walls that cannot be divided. and ultimately do not bring harm upon one another. One of my favorite rock and roll bands has a song that I like. they say: there's so many different worlds out there.....so many different suns.....and we have just one world.....but we live in different ones.

Obviously religion can get heated when it is debated. but it must be done from time to time. and done peacefully....the way it should be always. not violently. I kind of understand what each of you were saying and believe that all of you had good points and in most cases were ok in your beliefs/intepretations. I think their may have been some mis-understanding and differences that were blown way out of left field. like exporter said....people were careful with their words. and you have to be because one word can be mis-understood. I know a few months ago I made a comment about jesus/peter and wasn't real clear. exporter....you kind of went off on me in correction when in fact I was in the same boat with you. but because i wasn't clear with my comment you mis-understood me. sometimes that's all that happens with these arguements. and often times I say things the wrong way......


Edited by WataJerk, 24 August 2008 - 08:35 AM.


#116 Exporter

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 06:01 AM

lorenzo wrote: " I think their may have been some mis-understanding and differences that were blown way out of left field. like exporter said....people were careful with their words. and you have to be because one word can be mis-understood. I know a few months ago I made a comment about jesus/peter and wasn't real clear. exporter....you kind of went off on me in correction when in fact I was in the same boat with you. but because i wasn't clear with my comment you mis-understood me. sometimes that's all that happens with these arguements. and often times I say things the wrong way...... "

Absolutely correct lorenzo!
At West Point the entire first semester in their Englich Classes the time is spent in learning to write ONE long paragraph on one topic in such a manner that is has only One Meaning. They have to do that since Army officers do write Orders that cannot be misunderstood. I have talked to several Cadets who were very smart men who found out they had trouble writing for explicite meaning.
In my experience I have found one of the most difficult tasks is to write whats in your brain so that another brain can understand exactly what had been writen. The transfer of thoughts or ideas through the writen word is difficult!
If we consider that on this football board there are so many different personalities, so many differewnt backgrounds evaluating these posts - it's not surprising that some will misunderstand. Then top that off with with a non-football topic such as prayer and we have not only egoes but childhood training mucking up the communication.
Finally. There were two different approaches ( for lack of a better word.) to one basic Christian practice. One ignored what the original Christians ( Early Fathers or Apostles) had writen and the other agreed with the Apostles and the men who actually knew those Apostles. In a way these two opponents could not understand the language of the other. So the misunderstanding contenued. Thanks for your comments lorenzo, they were helpful. :rolleyes:

Addendum: Lorenzo, you say "I got off on you once about Peter/Jesus" I looked and this is what I see that I said to you.

"Lorenzo, I have a new found admiration for your thoughts and your posts. Why is that?
The last post you made was very thoughtful and demonstrated restraint while it did get
your points across. Thanks Lorenzo.
Also I agree that perhaps over half of the so-called Christians
are not comptetely sincere in their practice of their faith ( including prayer). Many in my church
are almost ignorant of basic church teachings in spite of the efforts put forth by the Church. I suppose that's
true in other denominational churches too" I might have made reference that Jesus was talking to Peter and I misunderstood you. All is O.K.

#117 Russ

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 08:03 AM

You wrote:

""Addendum: Lorenzo, you say "I got off on you once about Peter/Jesus" I looked and this is what I see that I said to you.""



I have so many things to say this 'what i hope is a serious'-mistype.

:lol:

#118 WataJerk

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 09:12 AM

Grammer and Manners young man

#119 Exporter

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:17 PM

Russ Posted Today, 10:33 AM
You wrote:

""Addendum: Lorenzo, you say "I got off on you once about Peter/Jesus" I looked and this is what I see that I said to you.""

I have so many things to say this 'what i hope is a serious'-mistype **



To Whom was THIS Adressed? Russ, your not doing too well on this thread old buddy.

#120 viking4life

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 02:58 PM

Well, who wrote what was quoted, Exporter?

Perhaps your answer lies there.




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