Jump to content



Photo

Question regarding bad snaps on Punts


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Wpirates03

Wpirates03

    All-Region - 1st Team

  • Active Roster
  • 448 posts
  • Location:Wylie
  • Interests:HS Football ALL THE WAY!
  • High School:Wylie High School
  • Referred by:Websearch

Posted 13 September 2008 - 01:33 AM

This happened at the Wylie vs. Horn game last night, and I was curious about the exact call. As was everyone around me. (And I sit with the "Football Intellectuals" :)

The snap was high and went over the punters head. He picked it up, and ran a bit to the outside. At this point, he was well outside the "Tackles" and about 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. When the kicker kicked it, the Wylie defender was in the process of diving to block it. He ran into the kicker, and the ref threw a flag and called it "running into the kicker"... I thought (for some reason) that if it was a botched snap and the ball hit the ground, he was no longer considered a "punter" and became fair game. The ball was well off when he was hit, but should the call have not been "Late hit" and not "Running into the kicker"???

Also, would a late hit not result in a first down, whereas running into the kicker or quarterback is an automatic first down? It's late and I'm tired, and may not be explaining this correctly.

#2 TXMike

TXMike

    All-District - MVP

  • Active Roster
  • 306 posts

Posted 13 September 2008 - 04:32 AM

This happened at the Wylie vs. Horn game last night, and I was curious about the exact call. As was everyone around me. (And I sit with the "Football Intellectuals" :)

The snap was high and went over the punters head. He picked it up, and ran a bit to the outside. At this point, he was well outside the "Tackles" and about 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage. When the kicker kicked it, the Wylie defender was in the process of diving to block it. He ran into the kicker, and the ref threw a flag and called it "running into the kicker"... I thought (for some reason) that if it was a botched snap and the ball hit the ground, he was no longer considered a "punter" and became fair game. The ball was well off when he was hit, but should the call have not been "Late hit" and not "Running into the kicker"???

Also, would a late hit not result in a first down, whereas running into the kicker or quarterback is an automatic first down? It's late and I'm tired, and may not be explaining this correctly.

The kicker does not automatically lose protection because of the botched snap. I thnk that may be a rule in the NFL however. In our game (NCAA rules are used in Texas HS), the kicker can "re-establish himself" by setting himself and making it obvious he intends to kick. If he can do that , even under heaby rush, he gets the protection. If he is runing for his life and just kicks it while on the run, he is not going to get roughing the kicker protection.

Late hit vs roughing the kicker : Late hit means the hit was after the ball became dead so that likely does not apply here. There is a foul if you hit someone who is obviously out of the play but that is not called a late hit. Late hit and roughing the kicker are personal fouls. Both carry automatic 1st downs as a penalty. However, if the late hit happens after 4th down and the offense had not made 1st down yardage during that down, then they will not get a 1st down. The ball would go over to the defense and defense would start 15 yards further back than they should have.

#3 Wpirates03

Wpirates03

    All-Region - 1st Team

  • Active Roster
  • 448 posts
  • Location:Wylie
  • Interests:HS Football ALL THE WAY!
  • High School:Wylie High School
  • Referred by:Websearch

Posted 13 September 2008 - 06:36 PM

The kicker does not automatically lose protection because of the botched snap. I thnk that may be a rule in the NFL however. In our game (NCAA rules are used in Texas HS), the kicker can "re-establish himself" by setting himself and making it obvious he intends to kick. If he can do that , even under heaby rush, he gets the protection. If he is runing for his life and just kicks it while on the run, he is not going to get roughing the kicker protection.

Late hit vs roughing the kicker : Late hit means the hit was after the ball became dead so that likely does not apply here. There is a foul if you hit someone who is obviously out of the play but that is not called a late hit. Late hit and roughing the kicker are personal fouls. Both carry automatic 1st downs as a penalty. However, if the late hit happens after 4th down and the offense had not made 1st down yardage during that down, then they will not get a 1st down. The ball would go over to the defense and defense would start 15 yards further back than they should have.


The thing is he had not reestablished himself. He was still running towards the sideline trying to get room to kick. He didn't have the room to stand there and kick. He was forced to scramble and by pure luck was able to barely get the kick off while running sideways.

#4 TXMike

TXMike

    All-District - MVP

  • Active Roster
  • 306 posts

Posted 13 September 2008 - 06:48 PM

The thing is he had not reestablished himself. He was still running towards the sideline trying to get room to kick. He didn't have the room to stand there and kick. He was forced to scramble and by pure luck was able to barely get the kick off while running sideways.

Would have to see it to be sure but sounds like he had not re-established and therefore no RTK is possible

#5 Wpirates03

Wpirates03

    All-Region - 1st Team

  • Active Roster
  • 448 posts
  • Location:Wylie
  • Interests:HS Football ALL THE WAY!
  • High School:Wylie High School
  • Referred by:Websearch

Posted 13 September 2008 - 07:58 PM

Would have to see it to be sure but sounds like he had not re-established and therefore no RTK is possible


Yeah, I think it shouldn't have been RTK, but the ref that threw the flag was out of position, or so it looked. It wasn't the white cap that threw the flag, and he was in position to see it. Guess he didn't feel like arguing with the "new guy" B)

#6 TXMike

TXMike

    All-District - MVP

  • Active Roster
  • 306 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:13 AM

Yeah, I think it shouldn't have been RTK, but the ref that threw the flag was out of position, or so it looked. It wasn't the white cap that threw the flag, and he was in position to see it. Guess he didn't feel like arguing with the "new guy" B)


RTK is the white hat's call. He can get help after the call by an official who might report to him that the "rougher" was actually illegally blocked into the kicker, but the initial call is his alone. Where was the game played?

#7 Wpirates03

Wpirates03

    All-Region - 1st Team

  • Active Roster
  • 448 posts
  • Location:Wylie
  • Interests:HS Football ALL THE WAY!
  • High School:Wylie High School
  • Referred by:Websearch

Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:00 PM

RTK is the white hat's call. He can get help after the call by an official who might report to him that the "rougher" was actually illegally blocked into the kicker, but the initial call is his alone. Where was the game played?


Mesquite Hanby at the Wylie/Mesquite Horn game.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users