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#21 Eagle 1

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:08 PM

I'm not suprised about the FOX poll, but in the Rasmussen Poll it all depends on what state you look at.
However polls are just that, polls. The number 1 team in state dont always win the championship, ie Mart.
I guarantee McCain and Pallin will win Texas.

MC, remember this post that you had no answer for?
Would you care to exlpain this change?

QUOTE
The mantra for Obama is change. I admit he’s a new face and a new color, but can anyone clue me in on how, politically, he is different from the other candidates? I mean this as a serious question, and I’d appreciate serious answers. So far, Teddy Kennedy seems representative of those who flock to the Obama standard, in that they’re mesmerized by what he’s not — he’s not a Republican, he’s not Clinton, and he’s not white — but no one seems to articulate what he is. And as a voter, since I think there’s a good chance I’ll be stuck with him as my President, I’d like a strong handle on what he actually stands for.

His website, by the way, does not help. I’ve gone to his issues page and discovered a few things that indicate that he’s almost identical to every other Democrat, except in the area of Iraq, where he’s not just a fool, but a damned fool.

First off, to the extent he has a little quotation at the top of his web page, what the heck does it mean? “I’m asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington . . . I’m asking you to believe in yours.” My what? My believing in belief? My personal ability, as a Mom in Marin to change Washington? I keep thinking of Peter Pan and Tinker Bell, with that theory going along the lines of “If you believe in fairies, clap your hands.” This supports my belief that he’s a master of meaningless platitudes, a demogogue who says nothing but who, like Chance the Gardener, enables people to attach their own meanings to his banal statements.

But back to his issues page. As far as I can see, when it comes to the economy, he’s promising to expand the government, which strikes me as same old, same old Democratic stuff. He’s going to give a large rebate to those who pay the least in taxes (which means he’s going to raise taxes against everyone else). He’s going to force government preschools, something that was tried in California and that, thank goodness, failed. There aren’t a whole lot of details, but there are promises: I’ll make schools better; I’ll be a tough negotiator, I’ll sneak a national health care plan in under the guise of benefitting small businesses. And on and on. It sounds like a typical Democratic plan for more government involvement in people’s lives and finances. No change here.

On Iraq, he opens by announcing that yeah, well, the Surge worked, but it didn’t work well enough to suit Obama’s high standards (whatever the heck they are when it comes to Iraq). Obama does assure us that he knows what he’s doing in Iraq, not because he’s studied military strategy, or the political situation in Iraq, or Islamic fundamentalism, or the Middle East, but because he voted against the war. Even if I agreed with his “no” vote, which I don’t, I’d feel compelled to add that even a stopped watch is right twice a day. It doesn’t mean Obama has any understanding of the complex situation in Iraq. Also, to the extent someone is whispering in his ear, I’m not thrilled about the radical pro-Palestinian whisperer he’s chosen. Since Obama has professed that his only qualification to deal with Iraq is his “NO, NO, NO” stance it’s scarcely surprising that his entire Iraq strategy is to bring all Americans home ASAP. It didn’t work in Vietnam, when it paved the way for the Killing Fields, and I’m quite sure that, if Obama succeeds in this plan, Vietnam and Cambodia will look positively benign compared to what happens in Iraq when he whistles the troops home. Oh, and by the way, once he’s removed the iron hand, Obama assures us that he’ll use his empty velvet glove to really, seriously, pretty-please ask the Iraqis to get along with each other. I’m sure that will work. I lost heart about here and couldn’t make myself read the rest of his Iraq page. The man is a lightweight. He’ll certainly change things in Iraq, but only for the worse.

On homeland security, which marches hand in hand with Iraq, Obama makes a few obvious promises, none of which are harbingers of change: he’ll guard chemical plants and water supplies, help families unite in emergencies, and track nuclear waste. Laudable goals all and, as far as I know, they’re already part of national homeland policy. Obama makes no reference whatsoever to the reason why we might need homeland security, something that was not on the political agenda ten years ago. Apparently we’re protecting these things against chimerical beings, without form or identity. Change? For a Democrat with a head buried deeply in the sands of denial, I don’t think so.

Healthcare? He’ll nationalize it, an idea that’s old (think Hillarycare), so I’m still looking for change.

On faith, Obama assures us he has it, but I have to admit to being a bit worried about the company he keeps, given that his minister is an outspoken antisemite and black supremacist. Kind of makes you wonder about Obama’s own deeply held beliefs. This really isn’t a change issue, unless you think it’s a change to have a closet antisemite, black supremacist in the White House.

And how about the judiciary? Well, Obama doesn’t really say. That is, he has no tab for “judiciary,” so you kind of have to guess. Considering that he supports unlimited abortion rights, and considering that, whether you support abortion or not, you have to concede (if you’re honest) that it’s not a right hidden in the Constitution, one has to assume that he will advance judges who believe in creative Constitutional interpretation. As you know, I am someone who forces myself to be honest here, because I’m ambivalent about abortion. I’ve grown up believing in it, and I think there is a narrow place for it (which doesn’t mean it’s an alternative for birth control), and would hate to see it vanish entirely. I’m enough of a Constitutional purist, though, that I believe we should arrive at abortion rights (whatever they end up being) either through appropriate states’ rights action or through a national Constitutional amendment. The Supreme Court’s cheating in 1973 cheapened the Courts and the Constitution.

Anyway, I didn’t mean to go on for such a long time about Obama, but I truly don’t see any “change” in him, aside from the fact that his election, if it occurred, would change us over from a Republican to a Democratic administration, with all the accompanying ideological changes that would inevitably occur with such a shift. As far as I can see, the only differences he has from Hillary are that he’s black and she’s white; he’s male and she’s female; and he’s an idiot when it comes to Iraq, while she’s a pragmatist. Oh, and he’s quite possibly a closet black supremacist and antisemite, neither of which are labels I like to see near an American president.

So, if you can offer concrete reasons why Obama is a genuine agent for real change (as opposed to snarky comments or meaningless adulation), please use my comments section for that purpose. Otherwise, I still think Obama’s a stuffed shirt, with little to offer in any significant areas of government, except for a real chance to be profoundly, dangerously stupid when it comes to America’s security. And if you can’t offer any reasons, can you explain to me why everyone is jumping on the Obama bandwagon when he’s precisely the same as the other candidates, only with even less experience than Hillary (who at least knows how to find her way around the West Wing). God knows, I never thought I’d promote Hillary’s candidacy but, compared to the others, she looks less scary.



#22 FarmersFan

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:10 PM

All I did was put the information out there for everyone to make up their own minds. And it appears that you have decided that there is some issues with these things you listed below. But you have chosen to ignore them or write them off. So don't blame me. Ever hear the saying "Me Thinks Thou Doest Protest Too Loudly".

I don't have a problem with Obama being a Muslim if he claims to be a Muslim. I do however have a problem with him hiding his muslim beliefs. Why would he hide it. I don't know. But common sense tells a rational man that he wants to remove himself from the Muslim groups that some of these facts seem to link him to. WHY? That's all I ask you, Why? Why would he have an association (regardless of how trivial) with Bill Ayers when he knows Ayers history? Why would he remain a member of a church that has a pasteur that has a long, long history of preaching hate about America? One simply question: Would YOU stay with a preacher that spoke badly about America?????? A simply Yes or No will do. Anyone who considers themselves a real lover of America would not have. It's not a problem if they feel America has screwed up or even if they hate America. They have that right. America gives them that right. But they would never get my vote for President of the very country they preach hate about. But apparently you don't have a problem voting them in........ Enough said.



"During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college, he made a 'round the world' trip. Stopping to see his mother in Indonesia , next Hyderabad in India , three weeks in Karachi , Pakistan where he stayed with his roommate's family. My question - Where did he get the money for this trip"

Your implying that there was something illegal going on. No proof

"Where did he get money for tuition?"

Again your implying that something fishy went on to pay his tuition. No proof

"Where did he get the money for Law School ? More student loans?"

Again implying that he had to do something Fishy to get into law school.......No proof

Get the trend Farmer? Your trying to get everyone to believe that he is a crook cause he got to go to college. This is the same fear tactic's being spread around right now. THEY ARE NOT WORKING!!!



#23 FarmersFan

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:25 PM

I don't know who it was that you quoted in this last post but I have to say that I am impressed. Whoever this person is they are a very well spoken and inform individual and I applaud them. They summed it all up in a few paragraphs. Fantastic!!



I'm not suprised about the FOX poll, but in the Rasmussen Poll it all depends on what state you look at.
However polls are just that, polls. The number 1 team in state dont always win the championship, ie Mart.
I guarantee McCain and Pallin will win Texas.

MC, remember this post that you had no answer for?
Would you care to exlpain this change?


Edited by FarmersFan, 15 October 2008 - 01:29 PM.


#24 Eagle 1

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:26 PM

A Japanese doctor says, 'Medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one man, put it in another, and have him out looking for work in 6 weeks.'


A German doctor says, 'That is nothing. We can take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him out looking for work in four weeks.'


A British doctor says, 'In my country, medicine is so advanced that we can take half a heart out of one person, put it in another and have both of them out looking for work in two weeks.'


The American doctor, not to be outdone, interjected, 'You guys are way behind. We are about to take a Muslim with no brains, put him in the White House, and then half the country will be out looking for work in one week.'

#25 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:28 PM

I'll stand with you Magic. I'm as a conservative Republican as there is, will vote for McCain, but this fear that Obama is going to turn us into a Muslim nation or is a terrorist is absurd. I am sick that these are the only two we have to pick from but pick we must. Yes, Obama will change things and it will head toward a more socialist form of government. It'll help some and hurt some. I'm not for it but I don't think it makes Obama a terror crazed Muslim American hater. Every single President in my lifetime (except of course my hero Ronald Reagan) has scoundrel associates. I can name them if you like. And for that matter, look at Reagans own children. Ron's a communist nearly and Patti's a nut job. McCain's own advisor, Rick Davis was in bed with Fannie Mae to a tune of $15,000.00 a month, right along with Barney Frank. Maybe in bed is not a good analogy, but there are questionable folks on both sides. Cheney and Halliburton no bid contracts, Clintons and Whitewater, the list goes on forever on both sides. But, to label anyone a terrorsit and question things like "where'd he get the money" is out of line plain and simple and it will be that rhetoric, as Magic said, that will cost the Republicans the Presidency. I love McCain as a great American, but his politics suck, he has flipped and flopped some many times I'm not sure what he even stands for now.

#26 MagicCat

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:29 PM

Farmer for the last time he is not a Muslim. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, and has stated numerous times on Television. Stop spreading your garbage!!

#27 FarmersFan

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:36 PM

Why the nationally broadcast mistake? That's all i asked from the beginning. How does a Christian mistakenly refer to his Muslim faith in an interview?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Could you make that mistake? Could I make that mistake? Could any real Christian make that mistake??? Don't accuse me of spreading anything. I watched it happen on TV. Are you claiming McCain doctored the broadcast???? Com'on! Pull your head out of the sand.




Farmer for the last time he is not a Muslim. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, and has stated numerous times on Television. Stop spreading your garbage!!



#28 Eagle 1

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:44 PM

Farmer for the last time he is not a Muslim. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his savior, and has stated numerous times on Television. Stop spreading your garbage!!

Matt Lauer of the today show, asked Obama would he proclaim to be a christian if he thought it would get him the presidentcy.
Obama at first tried to ignore the question, but Matt asked him again.
Finally Obama said yes.

#29 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:45 PM

Why the nationally broadcast mistake? That's all i asked from the beginning. How does a Christian mistakenly refer to his Muslim faith in an interview?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Could you make that mistake? Could I make that mistake? Could any real Christian make that mistake??? Don't accuse me of spreading anything. I watched it happen on TV. Are you claiming McCain doctored the broadcast???? Com'on! Pull your head out of the sand.

Maybe he was talking about his father, a Muslim that obviously, Obama had no choice in. I know I was certainly influenced by my father, an alcoholic, and I also had no choice. So today, if I refer to my alcoholic background and leave it at that, would you jump to the conclusion that I am or was one? You shouldn't jump at all, because YOU DON"T KNOW what I meant or he meant without asking him. Have you asked him? Maybe you should ask him what he meant. Then you would know.

#30 MagicCat

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:46 PM

I'll stand with you Magic. I'm as a conservative Republican as there is, will vote for McCain, but this fear that Obama is going to turn us into a Muslim nation or is a terrorist is absurd. I am sick that these are the only two we have to pick from but pick we must. Yes, Obama will change things and it will head toward a more socialist form of government. It'll help some and hurt some. I'm not for it but I don't think it makes Obama a terror crazed Muslim American hater. Every single President in my lifetime (except of course my hero Ronald Reagan) has scoundrel associates. I can name them if you like. And for that matter, look at Reagans own children. Ron's a communist nearly and Patti's a nut job. McCain's own advisor, Rick Davis was in bed with Fannie Mae to a tune of $15,000.00 a month, right along with Barney Frank. Maybe in bed is not a good analogy, but there are questionable folks on both sides. Cheney and Halliburton no bid contracts, Clintons and Whitewater, the list goes on forever on both sides. But, to label anyone a terrorsit and question things like "where'd he get the money" is out of line plain and simple and it will be that rhetoric, as Magic said, that will cost the Republicans the Presidency. I love McCain as a great American, but his politics suck, he has flipped and flopped some many times I'm not sure what he even stands for now.



Thank you, We disagree on our choice for the presidency but we will vote on the issues not some dreamed up, bald faced lies like Farmer is spreading. If you don't like Obama and don't want to vote for him fine, you have that right. Don't get on a public forum and purposely LIE, and try to scare everyone else who may not know as much as some of us Political junkies, lol.

#31 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:48 PM

Matt Lauer of the today show, asked Obama would he proclaim to be a christian if he thought it would get him the presidentcy.
Obama at first tried to ignore the question, but Matt asked him again.
Finally Obama said yes.

If your relying on Matt Lauer to prove your point, you've already lost. Do you like Joseph Lieberman? He's a Jew. Damn good guy in my book. Wonder if Matt would ask him that question.

#32 wildman

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:48 PM

May I add that another study done on all of this says that 6% of those who say they will vote for Osama will actually NOT when it comes time to check the box...they just will not be able to do it!!


I hope you are right. Osama is not what we need.

#33 MagicCat

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:49 PM

Matt Lauer of the today show, asked Obama would he proclaim to be a christian if he thought it would get him the presidentcy.
Obama at first tried to ignore the question, but Matt asked him again.
Finally Obama said yes.


Find the youtube clip of the "sadleback Forum" when pastor Rick Warren asked him point blank what does Christianity mean to him.


Edited by MagicCat, 15 October 2008 - 01:56 PM.


#34 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:51 PM

Find the youtube clip of the "sadleback Forum" when pastor Rick Warren asked him point blank what does Christianity mean to him.

And while your looking, find the clip of McCain saying he would never vote for a bailout and that our economy is strong. Just happened this summer.

#35 Earlylonghornfan

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 01:56 PM

Thank you, We disagree on our choice for the presidency but we will vote on the issues not some dreamed up, bald faced lies like Farmer is spreading. If you don't like Obama and don't want to vote for him fine, you have that right. Don't get on a public forum and purposely LIE, and try to scare everyone else who may not know as much as some of us Political junkies, lol.





:thumbup:

I agree, I even got an E-mail yesterday saying that the book of Revelation basically pointed to Obama as the antichrist. Gee whiz .... this kind of stuff really turns me off.


Just saying ..............

Edited by Earlylonghornfan, 15 October 2008 - 01:59 PM.


#36 bluecat87

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:00 PM

He doesn't care about all that. He just wants CHANGE!!!! He doesn't care that the people promising change are also responsible for the things that need changing. He just wants change! He doesn't care that the man he is voting for has radical Muslim associations. He just wants change! Like most Obama supporters he is transfixed by the smooth talk and rugged good looks. Oh yea! He just wants change!

If Obama is elected, "change" is coming, trust me.

#37 bluecat87

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:04 PM

Maybe he was talking about his father, a Muslim that obviously, Obama had no choice in. I know I was certainly influenced by my father, an alcoholic, and I also had no choice. So today, if I refer to my alcoholic background and leave it at that, would you jump to the conclusion that I am or was one? You shouldn't jump at all, because YOU DON"T KNOW what I meant or he meant without asking him. Have you asked him? Maybe you should ask him what he meant. Then you would know.

Would you say, "I have a history of alcoholism in my family", or "I am an alcoholic"?
Just asking...

#38 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:09 PM

If Obama is elected, "change" is coming, trust me.

It damn sure won't be Obama's fault. We Republicans have dropped the ball on this one. We have no one to blame but ourselves. And another point, you want to unite a bunch of Democractic liberals, call him a "radical Muslim", "osama" and the ever popular "nig....". I've read two on here already and you don't have to venture far to hear the third. That is hate speech folks, like it or not and it is very powerful, for and against.

#39 damoldave

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:12 PM

Would you say, "I have a history of alcoholism in my family", or "I am an alcoholic"?
Just asking...

You just read what I said. Don't change it. So if he said " I have a history of Muslims in my family" you think that would have served him better. Play on words, man. You can make them mean whatever you want.

#40 Dude

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 02:13 PM

I'll stand with you Magic. I'm as a conservative Republican as there is, will vote for McCain, but this fear that Obama is going to turn us into a Muslim nation or is a terrorist is absurd. I am sick that these are the only two we have to pick from but pick we must. Yes, Obama will change things and it will head toward a more socialist form of government. It'll help some and hurt some. I'm not for it but I don't think it makes Obama a terror crazed Muslim American hater. Every single President in my lifetime (except of course my hero Ronald Reagan) has scoundrel associates. I can name them if you like. And for that matter, look at Reagans own children. Ron's a communist nearly and Patti's a nut job. McCain's own advisor, Rick Davis was in bed with Fannie Mae to a tune of $15,000.00 a month, right along with Barney Frank. Maybe in bed is not a good analogy, but there are questionable folks on both sides. Cheney and Halliburton no bid contracts, Clintons and Whitewater, the list goes on forever on both sides. But, to label anyone a terrorsit and question things like "where'd he get the money" is out of line plain and simple and it will be that rhetoric, as Magic said, that will cost the Republicans the Presidency. I love McCain as a great American, but his politics suck, he has flipped and flopped some many times I'm not sure what he even stands for now.

Agree, but people seem to be voting for Obama for some hope of a change, the color of his skin, his speech making ability,and their hatred of Bush.The "change" is what concerns me. Liberalism will lead to greater government influence and dependence. This cannot be argued. Before anyone votes, they must examine this, This should be the biggest concern of all voters.




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